EvolutionFM Transcript: Awakened Sleep: Access Higher Consciousness While You Sleep (Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar & Dr. Sheila Patel)

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or on your favorite podcast platform.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar and Dr. Sheila Patel explore a profound truth that sleep isn’t just rest. It’s a sacred portal to our highest consciousness. Bridging Ayurvedic wisdom with modern science, they reveal how sleep holds the potential to heal, manifest, and awaken creativity far beyond what we’ve imagined. Dr. Suhas likens sleep to a nightly rehearsal for transcendence, while Dr. Sheila highlights its deep link to emotional balance and spiritual alignment. They speak of “awakened sleep,” where we can witness dreams, receive insights, and tap into the field of pure potentiality. Packed with rituals, reflections, and even a healing story of a dream that physically transformed reality, this conversation redefines what it means to go to bed. But just as the conversation builds to the idea of dreaming your destiny into being, they hint at the one practice that can unlock it all.

Transcripts may contain a few typos. With many episodes lasting 1+ hour, it can be difficult to catch minor errors. Enjoy!

Scott Britton (00:01.387)

Dr. Suhas, Dr. Shiela, it's wonderful to see you both.

Sheila Patel (00:05.176)

Thank you.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (00:05.392)

Thank you for having us Scott.

Scott Britton (00:07.895)

I'm excited for this conversation. You sleep is this funny thing where we spend maybe a third of our life doing it, yet it's still so largely misunderstood. And at least in the Western world, we don't really hear a lot besides maybe, cool dreams. Did that mean something? The relationship of sleep and consciousness. And so maybe we start here. When did sleep being more than just a way to get rest start to become

something that you are both exploring.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (00:41.754)

Well, thank you for having us. And I think sleep is a very mystical experience, I would say. And we are, as human beings, biologically programmed to fall asleep and stay asleep every night. And it's a bit ironic for us to write books and teach courses and have widgets and gadgets to help us sleep better. Sleep, as we have written in the book, is a spiritual experience. It is the closest that we can get

to our higher states of consciousness and awareness. I think it's almost closely connected as for the Vedic sciences to the fourth state of transcendental state of consciousness where you're not sleeping, dreaming or awake, but you're in a state of deep rest where you are biologically connected with the state of consciousness from where everything else manifest and it is the field of

all possibilities is the field of pure potentiality and we have access to that state every night. And I think this book is reminding us the fact that your sleep can be an extension to your meditation practice.

Scott Britton (01:59.007)

And you know, I think a lot of people hear that and they're like, okay, cool. So how do I do that? Like, how do I make sleep more than just this random thing where I close my eyes and maybe have some dreams? You know, know lucid dreaming is one concept, but how can we start to actually bring intentionality to our spiritual journey with our sleep?

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (02:22.972)

I will add a few things and then let Dr. Sheila add to this because I think from a Western medical science, we only know the mechanics and the stages of sleep. We still don't know. The science still doesn't know why we sleep, how we sleep and what happens when we go on the other side. It's as if we are doing a dress rehearsal of dying every night, but we still show up every morning. Okay. So I think

What we know of sleep as a science right now is we just divide them into different states that we connect the electrical activity of the brain and we are just seeing that what happens in the body and the brain when we are asleep. But when we are in that state of the consciousness from where you can manifest not only things that you want to manifest and see in your life as if you are planting the seeds to manifest because

dreaming is still a sensory experience. You are still watching, seeing, witnessing certain things. And this is something which is beyond the sensory experiences that you are aligning with the highest states of consciousness. So awakened sleep is a preparation more than just the sleep hygiene to clear the weeds and access that field from where you can plant the seeds for your evolution in life, productivity in life, but more importantly having an awakened spiritual experience. And this has been mentioned in all the Vedic literature for time immemorial, I would say. Sheela ji, you want to add something to this?

Sheila Patel (04:00.59)

Yeah, yeah. So I'll just add and also answering, you know, the first question you had asked, as you can see, Suhas, who trained as an Ayurvedic physician, it's embedded in that training that the wisdom and the knowledge that comes from the Vedic sciences, where it's a much deeper, because it accesses and talks about that spiritual dimension, that it gives us much deeper explanations of what's going on and kind of gets to the why.

why, you know, why things happen. So as he mentioned, you know, I trained in the Western medical model and honestly, I mean, I am a little old. I graduated from medical school 30 years ago, but you know, at that, and at that time we didn't talk about any of this sleep was not even a conversation, you know? And so now luckily over the last decade, there's been a lot of sleep science and it's all the buzz and everyone's talking about sleep. But as Dr. Suhas mentioned,

What the conversations are is what happens when we sleep. And there's only measurements of certain parts of the brain. Like what happens in like the cerebral cortex when we sleep, what happens to the genes and the genomic expression when we sleep. So that's the what happens. But I think to get to the why, you really need a medical or a healing system that is consciousness-based, like Ayurveda is, where you have explanations that can go into that spiritual realm.

And that's exactly what happens when we sleep. We can measure, and it is very similar to what happens in meditation. Genomic expression goes away from inflammation and toward hormones and gene expression toward health and longevity. Parts of the brain are more active that have to do with memory and cognition and the stress parts of the brain's cool down. And all of the similar what's that we can measure happen.

during especially deep sleep and meditation. And when we are able to prepare, as Dr. Suhas mentioned, you'll see in the book, we talk about from the moment you wake up, how are you preparing your day to fall asleep well at night? Not only the two or three hours before bed, very important, but there's that whole day. And identifying what's interrupting your sleep. Typically, it's all the thoughts and the...

Sheila Patel (06:21.44)

over-activated nervous system. So we can't even access the full potential that sleep offers us, you know, the spontaneous creativity and, you know, this is why so many, you know, amazing inventions and discoveries come during sleep. but we can't really access that if we're just clouded with all of our daily stressors. So yeah.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (06:44.39)

And if I may add a couple of things here and I know your audience, I have heard numerous of your podcasts and they are so educational and wonderful. It's music to my ears. So pardon me for my Sanskrit here, but from the states of consciousness, we know that jagruti, which is a state of awakened state of consciousness, swapna, which is the dreaming state of consciousness and sushupti, which is the sleeping state of consciousness.

The fourth state that we all revere about is called as Turiyatit. Turiyatit state where it is beyond the third stage, which is neither you're sleeping nor dreaming nor awake is the fourth state of the consciousness transcendental, which you are able to access much more easily. And if you really want to access that field that many of the people access that and get a glimpse of that in meditation.

Say for example, you are meditating 20 minutes twice a day or 30 minutes twice a day. Within those 20-30 minutes when you are awake during the day and you gently close your eyes, you are just trying to slow down your thought process. And maybe if you are lucky, get a glimpse of that in between your thoughts as such. But in your sleep, when you are putting all this thing to rest and you are actually in a ready state to access that state,

That is when you can actually watch, witness yourself sleeping, dreaming and experiencing what is going on and connect with that field from where you can actually plant certain things what you want to see and manifest. It is going beyond the subconscious mind in your sleep. It's a state of awakened sleep. There's a beautiful quotation in Bhagavad Gita where it says,

So when the whole world sleep, the introspective sage is awake. And when the world is sleeping and when the sage is awake, that state simply means that you are able to transcend the illusory nature of life, the Maya, the illusion, because we know as a fact for science right now that 100 % what we see, what we

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (09:10.168)

experience is not real. Is that right? Means from the quantum mechanics that we know that the whole objective matter doesn't have even a grain of reality to it. It's just the perception and we are getting bits and pieces of perception as our daily experience. So if our so-called life, whether that is a real dream or what we see in the night, is that the dream? So what we see as the day

is that the field of Maya and illusion. And this nature of sleep has been correlated with a poetic name as a goddess called as Nidra Devi, yoga Maya, the goddess of sleep, which cast its spell on us to probably allow us to get rid of this whole illusion that we experienced throughout the day and get a glimpse of that yoga, that union with the self.

And that self which connects your individual breath with the cosmic breath, your individual intellect with the cosmic intellect, your individual self with the cosmic self and that union, that yoga, that yoga maya, what happens in the sleep if we program and prepare ourselves properly. And I think this is going to be a next big thing to understand, to have that realization that sleeping is not just the waste of time.

Sleeping is not only a medical necessity, but it's one of the most important spiritual necessity to kind of enliven your dimension of life, how you experience everything in the world to transcend the illusory veil of Maya and lead what we call it as an awakened life.

Scott Britton (10:57.237)

So I love all this. Some practical clarifications. So it sounds like there is a state similar to witness consciousness that we can experience as an observer, as we move about our life, that we can also experience throughout the entirety of the night. And we can watch the dreams as if they're movies, like we're watching our thoughts as if they're movies. And with that comes a degree of agency that is not available.

when you're just caught in the dream or not even aware that it's happening or, you know, even when you're not dreaming, right? There's just a sense of agency that comes with that witnessing ability.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (11:38.31)

And I'm really surprised and happy that you use the word agency because that agency is your mind. The agencies that we engage to have experience all day long is our sensory faculties. Okay. So no matter what you do, your senses keep you busy all day long. Your mind keeps you busy with your thoughts all day long. So I think the best possible scenario where you are able to withdraw senses

more easily and able to quiet your activities of the mind much more easily only in sleep and more close to the deeper states of sleep itself. So that is the only thing that you are able to draw the mind inward from outward to actually have that experience. You use the word witnessing state of consciousness. Even to witness you need some degree of mind and intellect to work together in harmony itself. And

It doesn't happen because you sleep and everybody gets that experience. You have to prepare that as an evening routine to engage your senses, to engage your mind, to engage your intellect every night because we are creatures of habit and the sleep hygiene and the habit that we create every night to recapitulate our day, to slowly train and withdraw our senses, more so than just the average sleep routine.

that any XYZ sleep book is telling you about is to slowly preparing yourself for that experience without any fear or prejudice. Because there's a lot of fear around being alone and falling asleep and getting into the state of darkness in the night by themselves. In medicine, we use the word somniphobia where people are fearful of being with themselves and their thoughts. So dispelling that fear.

excited to be connected with that higher state of awareness, getting into the cocoon and Yogamaya is like going into your mother's womb one more time. And that is the womb of the entire creation, Prakriti, the goddess of creation. You are getting into the womb and the matrix of the creation itself. So as you prepare yourself with the meditation, we have given different

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (13:55.078)

quizzes and tools and techniques in the book itself, which actually allows you to prepare. And when you consciously prepare, it becomes a habit of every night what you do in order to prepare and have that experience. And slowly and steadily, you will convert the dull, tamasic, heavy nature of sleep to more of a lighter, sattvic, awakened state of sleep where your body gets the desired rest.

Your mind gets the desired rest, your senses get the desired rest, but your spiritual alignment becomes more and more refined from where everything else originates and manifests.

Sheila Patel (14:32.94)

Yeah, you know, I think, so, you know, just adding onto that, as you mentioned, there are, there are, are different ways we can, you know, maximize on that sleep experience. And even in the Vedic sciences, I think Dr. Suhas mentioned earlier, there are different stages of sleep. And that's what we recognize in sleep science as well. You know, there's dream sleep, that REM sleep, you know, we call it, and then there are different stages of, there's light sleep and then deep sleep.

And different things happen biologically, different things happen in the brain and in the Vedic sciences as well. There are different ways we can utilize these aspects of sleep when we're more awakened to them. you you can awaken in a dream state and witness it and even role play and, you know, play out different things. You can manifest experiences that you'd like that, you know, in the dreams. you know, I think we had briefly spoken earlier about that lucid dreaming experience and

So, you know, there are things you can do, but I think he had also mentioned you still are having sensory experiences in that state. So then deep sleep also has very important roles. And in sleep science, we know you don't want to miss out on either of those sleep states because different things are happening. But in deep sleep, this is where we really, now we really have a very limited awareness. You know, we have no sensory experiences, but there's a value to that where

we really can tap into more deeply into that, into consciousness and our truest nature, that doesn't have all the activity and the sensory experiences and the qualities. So we do need that as well. And when we tap into consciousness and our state of pure awareness during sleep, the qualities of consciousness we start to experience in our lives. So when we plant intentions,

before we go to sleep, which is one of the practices we teach in the book, then we are taking those intentions into this field of pure potential, especially during deep sleep. And then those things start to manifest when we're living also a conscious life. know, synchronicities start to happen, things start to happen. And we hear stories like this all the time. Things start to happen that, you know, your intentions have more, you know, power.

Sheila Patel (16:54.482)

when you're taking them into this field of pure potential with you during the night. And creativity is a quality of consciousness. And so that's why you start to see more creativity show up in your life. Coincidences or meaningful coincidences begin, synchronicities start to happen more. Peace, bliss, all of these other qualities of consciousness, compassion, equanimity, they all start to appear in your life more and more. you know, we want, we want to get all of these different aspects of sleep and there are different things that are happening. yeah.

Scott Britton (17:35.067)

Who doesn't want that? I mean, that's all that's all good stuff. I would ask, is there any cool story that you guys could share that kind of demonstrates what you're talking about in a visceral way

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (17:49.244)

Absolutely. We have mentioned numerous stories in the book, numerous examples. And there was a patient of ours actually who was having a broken foot in his cast. And we saw him for a little degree of discomfort and pain that he was experiencing. And this young teenager was having this cast and wanted to play his soccer tournament.

for his high school and he was getting this recurrent dream that he's playing in the final and is scoring the winning goal. And somehow he was so psyched about it. And when he talked about it, it was just a few weeks that he was in the cast and his doctor had stayed in his cast for another six weeks or so. And he begged him, his parents came to us and discussed this experience with us and we...

We talked to him, we took him on a journey of his own meditation and he felt very strongly about it. And so we somehow asked his parents to go to his doctor and remove his cast and let him get ready to see what he wants to do. And the experience was so strong that when they cut open the cast and did the X-ray one more time,

They have seen that it has almost healed about 80 to 90%. And this kid was able to go back, do a little prep for another week and was able to play the final goal and score the winning goal as it happened and as he had seen. So something, this connection between what you see, because sleep as we say is like a lamp at the door.It illuminates your inner life as well as your outer life if you pay attention to it.And there are numerous examples scattered everywhere. that right? Means the experience of Gautam Buddha when he was born was something that his mother saw this dream that this kid who is going to be born will never be a prince or the king. He will he will want to go out and be an ascetic and be a monk and find

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (20:00.78)

his own enlightenment and helped many people on his way. So they created this whole paradise so that he never experiences sickness, old age, death or anything like that. And still he was able to escape one day and became Gautam Buddha as such. So that dream has a prophetic quality. We have numerous discoveries that happened in deep sleep itself.

The double-helix structure of DNA was conceived in deep sleep. The periodic table of Mendeley was created in deep sleep itself. So what happens is when you're working hard, your senses get tired, exhausted and they can't function anymore. So you need to withdraw them and give them a rest and then you tap into the field of pure creativity. Consciousness is the field of pure creativity from where it just creates a quantum jump as we call it. So that is what happens. So when people were able to do that, Ayurvedically speaking, yadatu manasi klante, karmaatmanam klamanvita. When your mind, body, senses are exhausted, that's when you sleep. But when you sleep on something, that's when you find a creative solution to that. Many people woke up, wrote down the songs.

conceived the plan for making a movie or things like that. Numerous examples and we can go on and on talking about it. The benzene ring was conceived in the sleep itself. So it doesn't mean that suddenly something comes to you. You have been working on it, but you are not able to get a breakthrough and that breakthrough happens when you withdraw the senses. And one of the techniques that we have mentioned in the book is slowly allow your senses to shut down. It's very important because we only talk about from...

Scott Britton (21:56.959)

It's funny that you bring this up as we hear some sirens in the background. The sense is getting activated.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (22:03.696)

the senses do get activated. They do get charred, okay, many times because that's why we tell your bedroom to be soundproof, to be cooler, to be darker, because you want to withdraw your senses and you want to slowly calibrate when just to run a simple technique through you. So imagine you're about to sleep and when you close your eyes, just lie down there on your back and then scan your senses one by one.

Sheila Patel (22:03.758)

you

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (22:35.408)

Look at your eyes. What are you seeing in front of your closed eyes? What image are you feeling?

Just take a nice deep breath and relax.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (22:51.184)

What are you feeling on your skin? Can you feel the fabric of your sheet, comforter, mattress, the temperature in your bedroom?

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (23:05.476)

Are you able to feel hot, cold?

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (23:11.44)

Just breathe, relax and let it go.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (23:18.118)

What are you hearing? What sound are coming onto your ears?

any faint sound in your bedroom as you're lying down. Are you able to hear your own breathing? Just feel it. Take a nice deep breath and relax and let go.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (23:44.538)

move your attention to your sense of smell. What are you smelling right now?

Are you able to feel the aroma in your bedroom?

the smell of the fabric of the sheet.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (24:02.882)

any smell that you can recognize, register, take a nice deep breath and relax.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (24:12.314)

What are you feeling on your tongue? Are you able to recognize any taste of the dessert that you had after dinner? Or anything else on your tongue?

A nice deep breath acknowledging that and relax.

and then your mind. What are you thinking?

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (24:41.2)

What are the thoughts?

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (24:45.99)

Just allow yourself to be ready for sleep. Take a nice deep breath and let it go.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (24:57.562)

and quickly scan your entire day in front of your closed eyes. What happened since morning and evening? who you met, what conversations you had, what emails you received, what texts you sent to people.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (25:20.164)

And as you rewind your entire day, express a deep sense of appreciation, gratitude, joy and compassion to yourself having had a busy, productive, successful day. And be thankful for this wonderful life.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (25:44.782)

You had a day and you're going to have a glorious day tomorrow. So just be ready, be mindful, take a nice deep breath and turn around and slowly go back to sleep.

Scott Britton (26:06.497)

That was wonderful.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (26:06.714)

We did this thing. We just did it for a few minutes, but it takes us away from the whole busyness in the clutter. Because when you do it mindfully, it takes you away from it. When you do it mindlessly, then it keeps it awake. Then you are anxious, worried, you are into a planning state of finding solution. But you acknowledge this as is, and then you don't have to fix it.

Scott Britton (26:38.295)

One of the questions I have is, I mean, I find it very exciting to be able to work on my consciousness and sleep as well as material reality and what I hope to desire to happen. It seems like even if you aren't at that point, there is processes that are happening at the conscious level. And I can give you some examples, right? So I've experienced things where

you know, I'm clearly being given information about something that needs to be healed. I've experienced at the kind of like psycho emotional level, psycho emotional level. I've experienced receiving knowledge, right? I've experienced what feels like being taught something. You know, it feels like being being like taught taught like a skill or something like that.

And I haven't tried to purposefully do any of these things, but they're happening. And so I'm just curious, like, what is your perspective on that? Like, what's going on even without my conscious agency?

Sheila Patel (27:49.358)

Yeah, I mean, it's like we all have spiritual experiences all the time. We just don't realize that's what they are. So when we teach meditation, you know, what we're doing, it's not that you're just going to be able to expand and access those spaces more and more and more intentionally, right? Like imagine you've described all of the things that are happening without even trying. And then when you intentionally create more of those practices, you can tap into that realm.

you know, even more so. So we all have glimpses, you know, different people have had experiences even in the waking state of like, you know, synchronicities or, you know, a creative, you know, creative things coming to them in their sleep or experiences where they become the observer for a moment and people will say it felt kind of out of body experience, right? That's actually just witnessing awareness for a moment, but people don't know that's what's happening. So

We are constantly in and out of all of these spaces. So we are always having spiritual experiences. but as I mentioned, people don't really understand that's, that's what that is. But what we are able to do, just like with meditation and a meditation practice is we, we allow those experiences to show up more and more and more in our waking state and in our sleeping state. So again, it's great if you're having those experiences, imagine what would, you know, what can happen when we're intentionally, you know, cultivating that.

Yeah.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (29:16.092)

And having having known you for some time Scott, I know you have been working on this for some time. So every time you put some work, you put your meditation time in, you be a little bit more mindful of all the choices that you make of your diet and lifestyle and you're a father, you're a husband, you're a busy person with your work. So we are all doing a lot of things, but having that

conscious awareness and getting a glimpse and consciously trying to slow down at times to recognize that, to understand those signals that are coming to us. Sometimes they're coming from body as you said, it could be pain, could be stiffness, it could be something that is not feeling good. So your body is trying to tell you something. Your mind is trying to tell you something that you are more processing these kinds of thoughts that is making me a little bit more restless, making me more anxious.

and and tap into that field of consciousness from where you create or seek a degree of fearlessness. So you are training your subconscious mind, you're training your physical body to eat well, to live well, to make all kind of spontaneous choices that are making you healthy itself. it may you may look at this as as just positive affirmation. But we often say

that you want to have a healthy body. You want to have a clear, perceptive, reflective mind. You want to have more of a joyful, compassionate heart, which is more forgiving, which is more easygoing, which is not staying in the past, not worrying about the future, but staying in the present as much and experiencing that lightness of human being as you experience life. And you are able to cultivate all of that. You may debate about busyness of your life, but

everyone finds time to get some sleep. Is that right? And why can't we use that time to make our sleep as an extension to our meditation? To really use that time to not only sleep, but to be really, really productive with our life.

Scott Britton (31:32.403)

I'm on board, you know, I would love another eight hours or more like six and a half for me of working on my evolution. So

Sheila Patel (31:42.456)

Well, and the other thing too is with, you know, everything is a journey, right? And so when people really aren't getting very good sleep in the sense of, you know, not getting into deep sleep and REM stages, you start by just trying to cultivate some healthy sleep. And so there's some physical benefits. We know there are mental health benefits from getting good sleep, but then ultimately when you're using it as a spiritual practice, you can max them and you're meditating. Of course you have a meditative practice during the day.

using sleep as an extension of that. You people find as many yogis do, you can sleep shorter amounts of time and maximize what's happening, the healing that's happening during that time. But you can't just jump to it. You know, I mean, we can try to trick it and say, I can, I can keep going with only five hours of sleep. But when you look physiologically and, know, as far as, you know, emotional health, mental health,

Scott Britton (32:26.571)

Right.

Sheila Patel (32:36.91)

You're, you're, kind of bypassing, know, and so you can do that for a certain period of time. But then of course, what sleep studies show us is that, there's more inflammation, you know, there's, you know, maybe potentially hormone imbalances and different things going on because you're not allowing that rest time. If you haven't cultivated this type of a weekend sleep, but, many people find over time, if they do cultivate that, that, that they are maximizing the healing that's happening during sleep.

So, you know, this is why we hear these stories, right? Of yogis that can sleep for, you know, just minimal hours and get everything they need from that. But again, we can't just jump to it and kind of bypass the process. We try.

Scott Britton (33:19.947)

Bright.

You know, I think one of the things I thought was interesting in the book is a lot of people, they're not sleeping well, so they're like, okay, cool, like, let's reduce the noise, let's make the room cooler, let's do all the basic sleep hygiene stuff. But then it seems like there's also our unprocessed emotions having a big impact on the quality of our sleep. And I'd love for you to share more on that.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (33:48.412)

Well, absolutely, because your emotions, your thinking, your attitude, everything comes from what experiences that you have had your life and whether you have digested those, whether you have metabolized those properly or not, or they remain undigested in your system, in your metabolic system. So I think one of the things that we talk about

through the benefit of meditation, sleep and everything is to training your mind to really complete that process of digestion. We are the metabolic end product of our sensory experiences. And many of those sensory experiences remain in our system, not able to digest or process. this experience of asking ourselves that what are the sources that make you happy? What are the sources that makes you angry? What are the sources?

of thoughts and emotions that evoke some degree of fear of insecurity. And when you connect with the greater field of reality, you understand the utility, the illusion of those of those emotions, which kind of hamper the functioning of our physiology. You may have a racy heart. You may increase your blood pressure. You may increase your inflammation. You may weaken your immune system because of that. So I think the.

the connection and the parallel that the medicine talks about the benefits of the sleep and the Vedic scripture they talk about the benefit of sleep is using emotion as a fusion to cool down, to slow down, to regulate and optimize and focus on something that is bigger, better, greater and brighter than yourself every night so that you transcend the pettiness of life and you regulate your emotions to dispel the fear because

I think that is it's as if that you're invoking the light of inner intelligence in the in the sleep so that you purify you're taking a bath for cleansing toxic emotions and reprogramming it with positive emotions and you do it consciously initially and then it becomes automatically or unconsciously in your deep states of sleep.

Sheila Patel (36:03.714)

Yeah, we actually, it's a really important question. We dedicate a whole chapter on emotion. have, you know, each chapter kind of addresses what are the things that are interrupting our sleep. spend a whole chapter talking about this overstimulation of the senses and an entire chapter on, you know, how emotions affect our sleep. And it's, it's kind of chicken and egg situation where we, if we don't process, you know, really these strong emotions and we suppress them, they will play out in sleep. They'll either interrupt deep sleep states.

because we're heightened, know, those emotions, if they're not processed, they stick to us, right? This is what all the somatic, you know, mental health work is about. Or our dreams are disrupted. You know, they're like angry or violent or anxious dreams, fearful dreams, because those are the emotions that we're holding onto in our body and they'll disrupt our sleep. And the opposite is true as well. As Dr. Suhas mentioned, there's, so we want to consciously have practices where we're doing emotional regulation, emotional release work.

really addressing what we're storing in the body that we didn't process yet. And in sleep, we know like the trauma research has shown that people who don't sleep well have more trouble regulating their emotions during the day. So you need both. You have to have practices during the day so that that's not interrupting your sleep. And then you have to get good restful sleep going through all these stages of sleep in order to...

Scott Britton (37:16.823)

Mm-hmm.

Sheila Patel (37:29.678)

process the emotions, you know, during the day. So, so they go hand in hand and there's a strong connection between trauma and mental health and sleep both ways. If people don't sleep well, they will eventually have potential, especially if there's trauma, anxiety, depression, and people who have anxiety and depression have trouble sleeping. So it's, it's a two way street. So you, have to have, you know, you have to cultivate good sleep and you have to work on emotional, you know, do the emotional work.

Scott Britton (37:52.319)

Hmm.

Sheila Patel (37:59.022)

as well.

Scott Britton (38:00.949)

Yeah, I could see how that could be a vicious cycle. honestly, one that I've experienced, it's not fun. What is the ayurvedic perspective on what dreams are?

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (38:13.168)

Well, dreams are reenaction of some of the subconscious activities of your mind that you wanted to have or manifest or fantasize or you want to see them experience either those experiences are in the recent past or in the distant past. Sometimes even from previous lives that you're experiencing because your individual self is still

having this journey in your body as such. So some of these experiences are from a long time, even from childhood. And some of those things are real, some of those things are unreal. Some of the things are more futuristic kind of dream that you want to see manifest or experience something. Ayurveda talks about the quality and the nature of dreams as the real one. They may have, there are...

eight types of dreams that Ayurveda talks about. Some of them are related with feelings, emotions, the dosha, like for example, if you're a Vata type person who is lean and thin and by anxious by nature, they like to worry about things. So their dreams are more futuristic and what if kind of dreams. So if something doesn't go this way or something happened this way or that kind of thing, with that kind of dreams are more.

more type A people, more a little bit more impatient, angry kind of people. So their dreams are more fiery, more heat related, more controlling, more dominating and dictating things like that. So they push themselves and force themselves and they like to plan things and they want to execute their plan. So many of these people are writing emails and having text communications and

drafting documents in their sleep and it's just a matter of time completing that next day morning because they've already done all the legwork in their sleep itself because they dreams are more or less like present what they want to see and what they want to create that direction in their lives. Kaffir kind of people are more slow easygoing methodical people and their dreams are more like past.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (40:31.472)

like Vata is in future, Pitta is in present, but Kapha are in the past. So something what happened in the past haunts them. Broken relationship, challenging experiences still affects them and make them anxious and nervous at times. So even though they're good sleepers compared to Vata and Pitta type, but still their dreams can be in deep sleep are related with that.

If Kapha people are more water dominated, their dreams are more watery in nature. Pitta dreams are more fiery in nature, fire and fiery experience and everything. And Vata is more like high mountains, falling of the cliff, missing flights or something that is insecure kind of feeling to it. So there's a dosha physiological change. And we have mentioned that in the book that what kind of a sleeper are

We have created quizzes whether you are more like a light Vata type of a sleeper or a Pitta type of a sleeper. And Vata people have hard time falling asleep. That is the nature of that because as soon as they close their eyes, they start thinking worrying all those things and say they have hard time falling asleep or staying asleep. Pitta people fall asleep okay, but then they wake up in the Vih hours and they're ready to start going with their day and their activities as such. So many times

they have more difficulties in staying asleep. So they wake up in the wee hours, three o'clock in the morning and then the body feels very warm and hot and they can't go back to sleep as said. Kaffir people usually do not have problem with sleeping, but many times they're oversleep and they wake up feeling a little bit more dull, heavy, groggy, congested and invariably tired at times. So I think there's definitely a dosha connection to the pattern of your sleep.

the nature of your occupation, whether you're physically active person, it affects your bodily aches and pains and things like that. You have a sedentary job that also affects your son. And we know for science that outdoor exposure to sunlight is the biggest factor that influences your sleep. So exposure to sunlight during the day will dictate the quality of the sleep. And we look at sun and moon as the two forces. Is that right?

Scott Britton (42:40.341)

Hmm

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (42:50.82)

Sun and Moon which is heating and cooling, Yin and Yang, Shiva and Shakti. Sun and Moon, masculine, feminine. These are the two polarities, Sun as the father and Moon as the mother. So Moon occupies the night. So the serotonin during the day, the melatonin in the night. So those are the two polarities opposite that work hand in hand and they all depend upon each other. The quality of the sleep will decide the quality of the day.

and the exposure to sunlight and the quality of the day will decide the quality of the sleep. So this connection, we have mentioned that in our book. And I think the book is a unique take. And I would definitely want everyone to look this up on everywhere that the books are sold. Look for awakened sleep. it's your own version that you will develop and create. Because the book

points you, doesn't give you something that you should be doing every night, but prepares you that how can you use your sleep for self-repair, for self-regulation and invoking your inner intelligence that you can start feeling it on an everyday basis. And I think that is the purpose. Means Dr. Sheila is an experienced clinician and she has mentioned so many things in the book which are related with the medical benefits of the book. And we looked at it from the spiritual dimension.

And this fusion is very unique. There's hardly any book out there which actually talks about this and creating this understanding that sleep can be a perfect template for you to to awaken the fullest potential of your life. And if meditation changes your life in certain way, a good night's sleep and every meditation technique and organizations actually have these unique

nighttime techniques. Is that right? So every meditation organization, they actually teach you and train you these nighttime techniques that you prepare yourself that yes, you have meditated during the day. Yes, you have spent some mindful moment during the day, but how can you consolidate your experience in the sleep where you can feel the light in your heart, feel the circulation and allow yourselves to zone out of the sensory experience into the realm of

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (45:10.552)

unknown from the field of mortal self to the field of immortal self.

Sheila Patel (45:17.922)

So I just wanted to expand on what Dr. Suhas mentioned. He was talking about the individual, like mind, body types or doshas, vatapitta kapha. And I think that's, that's also a really important aspect to the book and to Ayurveda in general. It's a personalized approach to everything. And although many of us love being told what to do, you know, what exact temperature should I have the room and science, you know, and scientists are very happy to tell you, you know, what to do based on X, Y, Z research, but that could change.

Scott Britton (45:40.353)

Right.

Sheila Patel (45:47.726)

tomorrow. mean, obviously there's some things that are, you know, will always be applicable and it doesn't apply to everyone. You know, we have a very personalized physiology that's unique to us. And so what we tried to do in the book is, as he also mentioned, you know, have some reflection questions. There are some quizzes, but also reflection questions at the end of every chapter. Like when we talk about overactivation of the nervous system and then people can reflect after that chapter, like

what is going on in my day-to-day life that might be interfering with my sleep? And then when we talk about emotions and all of the things, reflection questions, like, do I have any emotions that need to be resolved that might be interrupting my sleep? So by the end, the last two parts of the book or chapters are really, you create your ideal lifestyle, daytime routine and nighttime routine for yourself.

And again, I think I feel as I've learned more Ayurveda over time, as opposed to telling people what to do. Although, like I said, we really love, you know, an answer. it's more empowering for people to find the answers themselves. They just need the right information. You know, if you don't know what questions to ask yourself or what to look at, you don't know what's interfering with your sleep. Then of course you're just going to do whatever the latest person tells you, you know.

but I, this is one of the things I love about Ayurveda is that empowerment and teaching people. So, you know, a lot of the book is teaching concepts because when people learn how physiology works from, know, and even how seasonal changes can affect, you know, your sleep, et cetera, then they're more empowered to make the right decisions for themselves. So, you know, that's something that I'm really kind of happy to put out there.

as a new perspective as Dr. Suhas mentioned on the sleep conversation.

Scott Britton (47:44.405)

I love it. Well, I'm excited to pick up the book. I'm definitely going to be reading it. Honestly, I mean, I feel like I had a very I mentioned this earlier to you guys, but like, kind of a prophetic dream last night about some things going on with me. And, you know, it just is clear to me that this is kind of where I'm being guided to spend some time in my studies. So thank you so much for publishing this and we will link out awakened sleep you can

Sheila Patel (48:06.698)

And, look.

Scott Britton (48:14.005)

You can search it on Amazon, but we'll also link it so it's easy for people to find. And I guess, is there anything else that you guys would want to share for people that are excited about the book or following you guys?

Sheila Patel (48:27.15)

I mean, I'll just close with saying, yeah, definitely follow along. We have a website also for the book that will be kind of building on different resources. you know, cause sometimes when you learn more information or a new way of thinking about things, more questions come up, right? So I would just encourage people to continue their learning of Ayurveda, continue, you know, just digging deeper and, you know, try to provide people new resources.

But this is really ultimately as Ayurveda is all about reaching our fullest potential. mean, this is why we're here, right? To reach our full potential as human beings. And sleep is just such an important aspect to that, that I hope the knowledge and the tools in the book really help people to reach their full human potential. And that's a wonderful thing to be spending.

time on, you know, sometimes in medicine, I love medicine and I, you know, help feel like I help people. But when you really feel like at a bigger level, these practices from IRV that really help not, then with, know, they, help reach people, help people reach their potential. And then when that happens, when we reach our individual potential, then that just translates into healthier relationships and healthier, you know, with our, people in our lives, in our workspaces, the planet.

know, these Ayurvedic teachings really, there's a ripple effect that, you know, is wonderful to be a part of. So I hope people enjoy, yeah, enjoy the book and get a lot out of it.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (50:06.424)

And I 100 % echo what Dr. Patel said just now because I think it is the message here is participation in your own health and well-being. Because sleep, diet and exercise are the three pillars of health. And interestingly, diet will decide the quality of sleep. The quality of sleep will decide the quality of energy you have.

to exercise and keep all the moving part moving. So it's a feedback loop. So automatically those people who sleep better actually make right choices for their food, what they want to eat and when they want to eat. Same with exercise. So the self-care ritual, sleep is a big part of it along with diet and exercise. So that is one thing. The self-care rituals that you will do before you go to sleep to tell yourself that you love yourself and your body.

You value your body, your quality of rest in yourself more so because the most important relationship that you have is with yourself. And so if you demonstrate that that I want to give my body an optimum rest, I want to prepare a healthy nightly routine, whether it's a warm bath, whether it's an oil massage, whether it is doing everything so that staying away from unhealthy toxic experiences in the in the bedroom.

and watching something which is unhealthy, but preparing something, cracking a book open, reading something, focusing on something positive affirmation, reading something which is more uplifting before you go to sleep. All of those things tell your mind, tell your body and tell your entire life and manifestation that you are engaged into becoming a better human being and living up to your fullest potential. So we wish everyone.

who wants not only to read the book, but embrace and participate in your own health and wellbeing.

Scott Britton (52:07.061)

I think it's a beautiful message. Thank you both so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom and I can't wait to read the book myself. It's gonna be awesome.

Sheila Patel (52:16.558)

Thanks for having us.

Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (52:17.468)

Thank you, Scott. Thank you.