EvolutionFM Transcript: Where Unprocessed Emotions Hide In Your Body & How To Release Them (Dr. Douglas Tataryn)

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Dr. Douglas Tataryn is a clinical psychologist. He’s a rare blend of scientific rigor and soul-level insight who invites us to reimagine emotional healing. In this mind-opening episode, Dr. Tataryn unpacks the hidden power of feelings most of us were never taught to acknowledge, let alone process.
From explaining how muscle tension can suppress emotional experiences to his life’s work developing the Bio-Emotive Framework and Nedera, he walks us through a model of healing that bridges the intellect with the body’s deep wisdom. You’ll discover why our cultural inability to name emotions keeps us stuck, and how precise language can unlock transformative breakthroughs.
He even shares a surreal moment that cracks open the door to human potential beyond logic. But just as you begin to grasp the full depth of his work, he drops a perspective on consciousness so vast, it leaves you wondering where healing ends and something far more mysterious begin

Transcripts may contain a few typos. With many episodes lasting 1+ hour, it can be difficult to catch minor errors. Enjoy!

Scott Britton (00:01.011)

Doug, what's going on, man?

Dr Doug Tataryn (00:03.704)

Hey Scott, it's great to see you. I'm looking forward to this interview.

Scott Britton (00:08.575)

Great to see you. I wish I had found you about 20 years earlier in my life. So I didn't have to spend decades working on all the emotions I never felt, better late than never, as I guess they say.

Dr Doug Tataryn (00:23.03)

Yeah, you're not the first person I've heard say that and one of them went so far as to give me shit that it was my fault that hadn't followed me for.

Scott Britton (00:33.033)

Well, I'm definitely I'm pointing the finger and praise for your work. And I think a good starting point for this to provide some background is when did you when did you really start to tune in and recognize the power of of emotions and how the way we process them impacts our experience?

Dr Doug Tataryn (00:52.578)

Mm. Well, if you're asking for that, I was probably 19. And I had just met the woman, the wonderful angelic being that was to become my wife. And she was teaching sacred movement from the Gurjeffian sort of Sufi lineage. I had seen a poster. So I was in university my first year, second year maybe.

And I just saw a poster that said.

beautiful sort of triangle with silhouettes and people dancing this esoteric movement and it said when striving for mastery of movement we're striving for more time in the moment and that that hooked me so i started going to her classes and i looked around and every class somebody started crying and it was like what the hell is going on here and then it wasn't

long before I was one of those people that was being pushed up against my urge to cry and meeting the resistance that it's not okay to cry. that's when I really started to see how I was limiting my life by my inability to feel and express certain things. And that's, yeah, sort of started me on this path. I mean, it actually starts a little earlier, but in a more abstract way through my meditations. But yeah.

Scott Britton (02:21.276)

And when did this come into focus for you in terms of your professional life and research?

Dr Doug Tataryn (02:28.65)

probably immediately, my first years as an undergraduate, I was working, in social psychology and we're looking at, demand characteristics of, how experimenters could influence the responses of the people participating in the research through unconscious processes, through unconscious nonverbal communication. And there was huge results. And so that really triggered me and woke me up to the

vast world and powerful world of the unconscious. And then later as a graduate student, I was lucky enough to work with Lynn Nadel and Jake Jacobs. And we wrote a chapter on cognitive therapy and cognitive science. And one of the sub chapters in that was, why do we do as we do? And why don't we know why we do as we do? And that was where I first...

printed an official version of my muscular interference theory of repression and its relationship to emotions and emotional expression.

Scott Britton (03:33.411)

So let's dig into this. mean, what role does do emotions and unconscious ones have in why do we do what we do?

Dr Doug Tataryn (03:45.882)

to speak to this, I'm going to just give a backup and give a little bit of a framework. I really love Paul McLean's triune brain theory. And a lot of people, particularly those who think that they're neuroscientists don't like it, even though he spent 30 years of his professional life as a neuropsychologist type person documenting the neurological basis of his triune brain theory.

Scott Britton (03:52.467)

Perfect.

Dr Doug Tataryn (04:15.214)

Most so what I like about it is that it gives me a language to talk about how complicated it is to be a human being. And so in that basic theory, we have in our heads a physical brain, the base, you know, brain that looks after our senses. The same thing is called the lizard brain. Right. Then on top of that, we have an emotional brain or the limbic system. And it's.

It's what distinguishes mammals from lizards, and it gives us an emotional reality. Anger, fear, happiness, sadness, right? creates, and it's actually a nonverbal communication style. If you just look at dogs and wolves, they can communicate really effectively through emotional expression and organize themselves to hunt and things, right? So that second layer, the emotional one is our relational, and it's by definition, pre-rational, nonverbal or pre-

And then we have the intellectual brain, where most of our culture is situated. And so in terms of the power of the emotions, I basically suggest that our entire culture, because of our pushing away of the emotional system for decades and generations, is very unconscious when it comes to the emotional system.

The emotional system, from my point of view, is what drives our behavior far more than what our thinking rational brain does. And our emotional brain drives our thinking processes far more than we'd like to acknowledge. And so one of the little quips that I've come up with is that our intellectual brain thinks about what the emotional brain feels is important.

Right? So there's an example of how most people are just aware of the thoughts and what they're thinking and being pushed to think or ruminate on certain areas. And they're not aware that it's being driven by unconscious emotional processes.

Scott Britton (06:26.707)

This is, this is something that I've always been curious about because in my, lot of my own inner work and the lineage that I studied, they talk about, you know, we have these imprints, right? These some scars, they often happen in a highly emotive event, right? You're a kid, someone bullies you, you feel tremendous fear or shame or something like that. And then a strategy gets created.

of how to handle the information scape in the outer world after that. And so it's kind of like, I always wonder what comes first? Is it is it the the kind of pattern strategy to interface with the world? Or is it the emotion that wasn't fully processed? You know what I mean? It's kind of it's kind of there's kind of like both right?

Dr Doug Tataryn (07:17.944)

Yeah, yeah, I

You know, perfect. You're pointing right at a critical juncture of our culture and the kind of unconscious influences that we're all driven by. Going back to childhood events and more rarely, but still adult events, again, a little axiom. Any intense interpersonal encounter that we don't fully experience and express

Okay? Will become part of our sense of self and worldview instead of something that just happened to me.

Right? So that's complex, but it's really important. Any intense interpersonal encounter we don't fully experience and express. Most of the time that means emote and process and integrate. Fully cry, fully express our feelings. We'll get embedded into our sense of self or our worldview instead of just something that happened to us.

So for example, if a little child, here's an example of a woman that I worked with who had OCD, who seems to have, this might not be the only critical influence, there may have been other tendencies, but this seemed to be her origin story for her OCD. She was in kindergarten and she spent the half hour drawing this beautiful picture of her teacher.

Dr Doug Tataryn (09:01.27)

And she put her whole heart into it. Like she really loved and appreciated this teacher. And at the end of the hour or whatever the assignment, she went up to give the picture to her teacher and the teacher just being busy with, you know, 30 other kids or 20 other kids, looked at it quickly and said, you can do better than that. And turned back to her, you know, whatever she was doing. It devastated the child. And, you know, in my

My languaging, the core feelings that came up was that she felt really insignificant, really inadequate, right? And that impression, because she didn't go home and talk and cry about that experience with her parents, stayed in her system. And so she built her sense of self around being inadequate and insignificant. And the generalization, the feeling belief that came up that

with something along the lines of, even when I try my best, it's not good enough. Even when I do my best, it's not good enough. And so hence the OCD to be better than her best. So again, I believe if she could have gone home and talked about how hurt she was and how much she loved that picture and the teacher and how disappointed she was and cried and was held by her parents,

Scott Britton (10:04.766)

Mm.

Dr Doug Tataryn (10:25.602)

She would have felt significant. She would have felt valued. She would have felt, you know, put a different context on her feeling of inadequacy and understood that the teacher was, you know, busy and it wouldn't have become part of her sense of self. would have just been an event that happened to her. And this kind of explains why the same people can be, you know, quote, traumatized or not traumatized by the same car accident or by the same chastising from their boss. One person

takes it in and doesn't process it, the other one goes, takes it in, processes it, and it just becomes an event. The other person, it becomes like a trauma to them, a little T trauma.

Scott Britton (11:06.131)

mean, this is why I'm obsessed with consciousness. It's so fundamental to your life, like these things that happen and going on the journey of discovering them and then taking more authorship. What is more meaningful, right? To understanding why we are the way we are. And from your perspective, like in terms of the healing and transformation of that type of event,

Dr Doug Tataryn (11:25.453)

Yeah.

Scott Britton (11:34.623)

what needs to occur to no longer be at the whim of the teacher telling you that you didn't do a good enough job.

Dr Doug Tataryn (11:44.3)

Well, as you've talked about in your conscious talent in many of your interviews, I love that you've just released your book about this dynamic. When I work with people, I don't necessarily say, tell me about your childhood. What I do is say, tell me where your life isn't going the way you'd like it to. And inevitably, some interpersonal dynamic with another being or with the world will come up.

Scott Britton (11:53.993)

Thank you.

Dr Doug Tataryn (12:13.804)

where you can see that there's feelings of inadequacy or worthlessness or helplessness that are stopping them from moving forward. And so as soon as we land and place our attention on those feelings, it's important you find, like if I've got a book that I'm not writing, right? Or if I've got a deadline, I keep putting off.

What's the feeling? Is it like this fear that if I complete it, I'll be exposed and my inadequacy will be shown, you know, like everyone or I'll put the work out and no one will care about it. And so it's a deep feeling of worthlessness that I'm afraid that people will find my work worthless, whatever it is. Once you find the core feeling, like I am worthless and no one will ever take the time to read my work or I'm

I don't go on dates because I am insignificant and worthless and nobody, and I don't really deserve to be loved. Once you find this core feeling belief, that's the generalization you made from that initial core impression, all the times that that feeling, feeling belief was playing out in your life suddenly becomes accessible. And it's really wild when I find the right feeling belief with somebody.

It's like they go, my God, I'm flashing back to kindergarten. my God, I'm flashing back to high school. my God, this is what drove all of my relationships, right? So that happens because we've got what's called mood dependent memory or emotional dependent memory. And so I think that all the memories associated with feeling inadequate are stored in one place. All the feelings associated with feeling worthless are stored in one place, et cetera. So once you find

Scott Britton (14:00.479)

Hmm.

Dr Doug Tataryn (14:05.28)

one of your core feelings and feeling beliefs where you've got unresolved stuff, all those instances show up. You go back to the most original one you can find and you process what did you feel? What would you have liked to have said? Usually the tears are coming and the crying. And then with that full experiencing and expression of that intense interpersonal event, it completes the emotional.

Scott Britton (14:17.503)

Hmm.

Dr Doug Tataryn (14:34.166)

expression cycle, the natural healing cycle that we have when we express our emotions and everything kind of moves back to where it should. We release the energy from our system and we find often the fallacies that were associated with those beliefs. if you're lucky, there'll be

Scott Britton (14:56.18)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Doug Tataryn (15:01.354)

other positive impressions that suddenly find themselves accessible to you, where you were loved, you were valued, people did smile and appreciate you, and those come in and really update that core feeling that you've been carrying, but because it's closed off and hidden, never really updated. Right? And that's one of the sad things about the way most people are in the world is that

Often in our adult lives, we have many positive emotional experiences that don't ever register at the places they need to because we're not as fully available to our emotional world as we could or should be. Right? I think you understand that, but I can elaborate.

Scott Britton (15:49.457)

Yeah, I mean, what comes up for me is the inability to receive love. Where like we have, I'm just thinking about myself, right? For a long time, people would compliment me or people would say, you're awesome, or all these things. And there was a part of my subconscious that made me just deflect. You know, it's like, okay, I'm getting a compliment like, you're awesome, too, right? Like, I just wasn't able to

Dr Doug Tataryn (16:10.029)

Yes.

Scott Britton (16:18.685)

received that updated impression because there was something underneath it.

Dr Doug Tataryn (16:22.062)

And I would say that comes from two, maybe three factors. One is developmentally, most people are living in their intellect and they've shut their emotional system down. So most of our lived experience as an adult is highly intellectual and not emotional. So we can't update the emotional system. Whereas children developmentally are living in their emotional system. And so they're taking in and updating impressions.

all the time. Most people can find it that the point in their lives where they kind of shut the emotional system down and just embraced their social intellectual reality and in the Gurdjieffian tradition that's called the great betrayal when that happens because you leave the essence of who you are behind and start acting according to how you should or you think you should be acting. So that's one thing. The other is with that transition we have

a lot of defense mechanisms like repression and suppression that come up, which act as buffers so that again, things don't get into the emotional system. Yeah. And so, you know, I describe our culture as alexithymic, which means that they have a, it's a word very few people know. It's actually becoming more popular since I've been using it for 20 years. I'm finding it in the culture more.

but alexithymia means a not like agnostic, not Lexie is Lexicon and thymia is mood or emotion. Our culture has no words for moods and emotions. And I know you'll find this strange because you're probably a very emotionally attuned person. But from my definition of alexithymia, even you would probably be at least somewhat alexithymia. And

And don't take that personally because.

Scott Britton (18:24.433)

I totally believe it.

Dr Doug Tataryn (18:26.414)

And so because of that, it's very hard to do this updating. That's why you can't. right. So when someone gives you a compliment, like you're awesome. Part of you, if you've got a deep feeling belief that you're inadequate or worthless, it can't make it in because if you open up to take the positive impression, you'll meet the deep negative impression and that's too scary. So you push it away.

You kind of need the right conditions to open yourself up, to feel that pain and to take in positive impressions.

Scott Britton (19:06.023)

It reminds me of, you know, memory, re consolidation, the science that science where, know, essentially has to be met what is there in order for there to be some type of change or shift. One, one part I did want to zoom in on really quickly that I think is very interesting is the notion of like, the exact feeling word phrase and the importance of that.

Dr Doug Tataryn (19:11.0)

Yes.

Dr Doug Tataryn (19:20.035)

Yeah.

Dr Doug Tataryn (19:34.67)

Okay, I'm glad you went there because I was going to interrupt you to say I need to complete the Alexithymia thing. Because in my way of seeing the world, and I've been doing this for 30 something years, it's hard to believe I started doing clinical work in the 90s. Like 1991 or something, and full time in 2001. But in my experience, I'd meet women.

And sometimes men who said they're very emotional and I say, great, it'll be so much easier to work with you if you're not repressed, right? And they come up to a critical event in their life and I say, how are you feeling? And literally I'd get a story. I get physiological sensations. I'd get generic words like I'm really upset, but it's like, okay, but how are you feeling? And in my own work with that, as I started pushing

that sort of worldview onto people. It's like we need to get more specific. I was doing a Gendlin's focusing type process with them where they're focused on their body and trying to find words that resonate. And I, so I did that, but with the emphasis of not releasing the body, but releasing the emotion. And people would find words that would resonate more. They'd start to.

Scott Britton (20:43.839)

Hmm.

Dr Doug Tataryn (21:00.462)

cry a little bit and then I'd say, that the essence of your pain? Does that feel if you just sit with, you know, what happened at work or with your husband or your mother, does that feel like the essence of your pain? And they go, not quite. They'd still be crying, but it wasn't quite. Then we keep working for a more specific word. And then suddenly the tears would just come and they'd be sobbing. And I go, does that feel like the essence of your pain? They go, yes. So what I did was

I had a little pad of paper by my desk and I wrote that word down. Over the course of three years in my initial practice in 2001, as I did that process, same process over and over for whoever came in, I ended up with nine words. Three years, I had like five the first year, eight the second year, nine the third, and then the fourth and fifth, I didn't get any new words.

Right? And so I started modifying how I was working with people and offering words to them. And that really deeply facilitated how quickly they got to the roots of their pain and expression. And so that's when I came to realize that healing isn't just about crying. It's about crying and expressing the specific feelings that you've had. So to cry and say you feel helpless brings about a different consciousness than to cry and say you feel inadequate.

try and feel, say you feel worthless or to say you cry and you feel insignificant and each one forces a kind of integration of the emotional world into the intellectual world and it sort of bridges those two brain systems together and once you've started recognizing your insignificance you start, you know, and how the important role it's played in your life.

and the patterns that it's been causing you to play out, avoiding certain kinds of situations, et cetera, you really wake up to recognizing consciously where those feelings and feeling beliefs are affecting your life. Right? So it's, it really is making the unconscious conscious while you're healing at the same time. So just to step back a bit, when you want to heal, not only is it important to

Dr Doug Tataryn (23:21.902)

cry, but you have to express the words and some people will just cry and not heal and I've met many people like that and some people will express the words but there's no actual connection to their emotional system, you know, so they're not healing. That's what a lot of talk therapies have done. They get the insight but not the healing.

Scott Britton (23:38.441)

Does that?

Is that? Hmm. Yes, so the answer really you need both for maximal, maximal healing. And is that expression of the words? Does that have to be verbal? Or could it be a mere recognition in your awareness of that like exact phrase?

Dr Doug Tataryn (23:58.798)

down.

I would say it's possible you can be healing on deeper levels without articulating the actual feelings. But if that's the case, there's a kind of wisdom that you'll be missing because you won't be completely integrating the dynamics into your conscious world and you won't be gathering information and understanding about how that dynamic is played out. So I see this happen with people who've gone for deep massage or reiki works where they have deep catharsis.

and they cry and they feel this huge physiological release, but they don't understand why they were crying and they're subject to playing out the same patterns again.

Scott Britton (24:42.591)

Hmm.

Scott Britton (24:46.545)

One of the questions I had for you, just tangentially, is why do you think emotions aren't more stressed in a lot of these spiritual traditions?

Dr Doug Tataryn (24:57.942)

Ooh, that's a whole other topic, but yeah.

Scott Britton (25:02.047)

I mean, because like what we're talking about, right, is like, moving back to a place of authenticity, purification, where why are our thoughts the way they are? It's I mean, it seems so fundamental. And yet it's completely missing in many of these traditions.

Dr Doug Tataryn (25:21.964)

I would say Tucker Peck that you recently interviewed said this really well, which is meditation is more interested on your relationship to your thoughts than the content of your thoughts. Right? So in my language, I use the four facets. So I'll introduce another framework here that I think will really explain why there's a schism here between our spiritual and psychological worlds.

four facets basically say there are four different dimensions that humans have an obligation or a challenge to grow on. And the first facet is the disidentification or the waking up facet. The second one is the cleaning up facet. The third one is the growing up facet. Now this is coming from integral theory.

Scott Britton (26:20.5)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Doug Tataryn (26:20.684)

And I was around when June Pope, Dennis Kelly and Ken Wilbur and other people were coming up with these contracts. got one or two and then three. And about a year later, I wrote Ken Wilbur and I said, I think there's a fourth facet here. And I was suggesting that I do a presentation at his spiritual spirituality, integral spirituality conference, but it never happened. a year or six, eight months later, he came up with.

his own version of a fourth facet. I hadn't told him what I thought it was, but just that there was a fourth. And he says the important thing is showing up. I actually think that the important, I think showing up is actually a developmental growing up thing, that each time we move through a communal phase of our growing up process, we tend to move into service in the world, if we're inclined for that. I think the fourth facet is looking around.

And I've got a lot of reasons to believe that because, you know, this, this four facet model in my sort of way of looking at it, which is different than integral is actually a model of the psyche. Okay. And so we can only take what we perceive.

Scott Britton (27:19.167)

Hmm.

Dr Doug Tataryn (27:41.774)

create our initial take on reality structures and objects and relationships through our developmental stage. Then we add emotional valence to it according to our history, which is our cleaning up stuff. And then having created the world, what we can see by the developmental stage, adding the emotional valence that's idiosyncratically appropriate for us. We've now created the world and we have to decide what is me and what is the world.

And so that's the meditative path. Anything that happens in these first three facets can be looked at and said, Neta, Neta, not me, not me, not me. And that's what meditation does. It says, if you want enlightenment, if you want to truly see the fundamental nature of reality, just contemplate everything. Where is the self? What's real? What's not real?

Are you your thoughts? Are you your feelings? No, I'm not. Okay. So then you keep pushing yourself back and back and back until boom. You're left with awareness sort of turning on itself and transcending the limitations of this particular point in space time. And you have a transcendental experience and you go, Oh my God, right? This is the enlightenment phase. And you wake up and you go, wow, I can never truly get immersed.

in the dream again. And it's a dream because the first three stages are construction. Even if it's trying to map onto reality, it's still a dream. And so by disidentifying from all of the elements of the dream, you've transcended it, and that's what they want. Now, in Western world, where we're much more embodied, well, no, I can't say embodied, we're much more interested in affecting the world in a sense when

The teachings have come out of the monastery, which is what happened when they came across to the West. People started doing these practices in real life. And they would become enlightened. And then back then, because developmentally our culture was in a traditional state of consciousness, enlightened beings were perfected beings. This is the black and white thinking. Once you're enlightened, anything you do or say is perfected God radiance, right?

Dr Doug Tataryn (30:07.254)

And so we gave them all sorts of liberties to be assholes and attribute it to some divine teaching they were trying to make. Now with our maturity and moving out of traditional black and white thinking, we realize that enlightenment does give you a fundamental insight into the nature of reality and who you are, but it doesn't perfect you on these other dimensions. And that's where these other practices like psychotherapy or developmental work.

and looking around work are really important.

I could keep talking, but I'll let you ask questions.

Scott Britton (30:43.304)

Very-

very, very interesting. I mean, the looking around phase, what comes up for me, and I don't know if I'm interpreting this correctly. There is a distinct moment of, it seems like a distinct part of the awareness journey where you notice a coherence between the inner and the outer. You notice, this is happening in the outer realm because of this aspect of self. And

you kind of can't get there without doing the cleanup, right? Because most of the stuff in the subconscious

Dr Doug Tataryn (31:21.452)

You don't want to get there without doing the cleanup.

Scott Britton (31:24.241)

Yeah, so it's almost, I mean, am I close there with the looking around or is it different?

Dr Doug Tataryn (31:32.908)

Well, I'll explain to you how I think of it and then we can see if it maps onto what you're talking about. So in the looking around dimension, there's two components. There's the clearing out deficits component, and then there's the expanding consciousness component. So in the expanding consciousness component, it's about learning to see all aspects of reality that are available to the human conscious mind.

That's the shamanistic world of many spiritual traditions. Journeying into the past, seeing out the eyes of an eagle, going deep into your own psyche and understanding how you've come to be, maybe making contact with the ancestors, all the shamanistic practices, including the Jhanas, including Vipassana. There's so many aspects of reality.

that are available to the human consciousness that most of us never perceive. That could include seeing auras, astral projection, doing energy work. We're just oblivious to so many dimensions. So that's the positive thing. The negative deficit part of looking around is to see which aspects of reality are you not parsing through your developmental stage and your, know, valancing stage of the cleaning up thing.

that's causing a problem. So if I'm unaware of nonverbal behaviors, if I'm not processing nonverbal behaviors, I'm going to bump into and have problems with people because that's not part of my reality. If I'm unaware of emotions and what I'm feeling and how to say them, right, that's going to cause problems. I'm not even aware emotions exist because I'm a hyper rational being. That's going to cause problems in the world.

So it doesn't matter what developmental stage you're in or how emotionally clear you are, if you're missing nonverbal reality or emotional reality or other kinds of cues from the world, you're going to construct a world that bumps into other people's worlds and causes problems.

Scott Britton (33:52.019)

I appreciate that distinction. Yeah, I mean that all of those things too is what comes up for me. You know, all of all of all of that's a dynamic too. And you know, I think go ahead

Dr Doug Tataryn (33:59.788)

Yeah.

Dr Doug Tataryn (34:05.41)

The well, if you want to move into, think what you were talking about, the synchronicities of the world.

Scott Britton (34:12.732)

Yes, that's, that's what that's, that's what I was kind of referencing, where it's like, how could it be possible that I had this thought, and this thing just came, right? And these things are perfectly organized for my healing. And, you know, that that that's a, that's like a that that pattern recognition, to me is, and what that infers, right is that's, that's, that's what I

Dr Doug Tataryn (34:23.778)

Yeah.

Scott Britton (34:41.747)

was thinking of when I was thinking about looking around.

Dr Doug Tataryn (34:44.578)

Yeah, and what I'll say is as we do this work, as we particularly clear our deficits, we could augment it by doing Jhana work or deep Samadhi work because in the Sutras, it's said that if you spend enough time in the Jhanas or in Samadhi, you'll develop siddhis. And what are siddhis? But psychic.

capacities to influence or hear or feel aspects of reality that are normally outside of the senses. So I'm not going to talk much about that, but it may be playing a part. The more, if you get your developmental stage, I would say, to green or higher, which is like postmodern or get into second tier of, in my language,

pattern recognition thinking, where you transcend the limitations of the intellect and you can do more than just parse the world according to logic and reason when you can see patterns and your sense of self isn't identified with your thoughts. You've just opened yourself up to energetic influences in the world. And the more you're emotionally clear and don't distort those things,

It's almost like your inner feelings and needs and aspirations become like a...

an ember that's glowing, right? And there's nothing impeding its radiance out into the world. And we start attracting energetic collaborations and similarities because we're no longer encapsulated in the way we are. Because literally our sense of self, as we do this work, as you move up the growing thing and the clearing work and the disidentification work, who we think we are becomes smaller and smaller.

Scott Britton (36:52.361)

Hmm.

Dr Doug Tataryn (36:53.59)

And as you focus ultimately down to the experiential realization that the difference between you and I at the most fundamental level is just that you're located over there and I'm located over here. And that our fundamental nature is that we are pure awareness. And so once you

realize that you're just a point in space-time and everything else that arises is just a construction. You're no longer tethered to this point in space-time the way you were when you believe you are the thoughts that are being thought here or the feelings that are being thought here, you know, or experienced here. And so there's much more capacity for transcendental experiences and connections. And when you take it to the extreme, I think you actually come to embody what in the Christian terminology

is enacted or spoken of as not my will, but thine will be done. You start to become a vehicle for the currents of life itself and what's needed in this or that situation according to the dynamics and the players that are around you. And I can give you an example. I tend not to move into these psychic realms too much, but it seems to be

Scott Britton (37:54.719)

Hmm.

Scott Britton (38:12.731)

Let's go there.

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